I liked, “We’ll be as mobile as we need to be in the years to come in order to remain close to Jesus.” That’s where we have landed as well. Close to Jesus is the goal, not loyalty to an institution.
In my own limited experience, I have not found that there is as much emnity between Stayers and Fleers when they both want change, but between those who want to keep things the same and don't see a problem, and those that are working for change, whether on the inside or outside. That said, I'm a Fleer who is holding out hope that I can find a safe place to be a Stayer again, but I want to choose carefully. I do find myself frustrated with Stayers who won't leave churches that are clearly resistant to change. That's where my heart breaks and I just want to shake those who Stay.
By the title, I thought you may be headed Shakespearean, then read ahead and thought nope. But then by the end thought, it actually tracks. Intro to R+J: “Two households, both alike in dignity, In fair Verona, where we lay our scene, From ancient grudge break to new mutiny, Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.” May we end less tragically.
Thank you for posting. I am in your group 3. Unexpectedly fired from my job after 16 months of trying to pioneer a new role in a conservative church as a woman in ministry leadership/teaching. Doesn't feel safe to stay as congregants, but we've been there 20 years. So painful, this is where I I had my wedding and wanted my funeral. Compounding is they fired my husband 12 years ago and we worked through it, reconciled, and stayed. They are good men; they just don't see and it's hard to trust they ever will. Now my choice seems to be being gaslit or misunderstood. Trying to stay and hoping that they will hear me and trusting God is bearing the pain with me.
This is a really timely conversation. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on markers/diagnostic characteristics to discern when to leave or stay in either household. Maybe that’s a separate article though!
Thanks for the comment! I’d say that there are some subjective components to discerning whether continued investment is appropriate or not. For most folks who leave, it’s a labored and slow realization after many bids for change. And in cases that don’t involve corruption or abuse, it may just be the realization that you no longer align with an institution.
I'm wondering if these two houses are really on opposite ends of a spectrum or continuum. That being, we find ourselves moving between them in discernment based on context and somewhat our subjective measures. As well, they are held in tension in our own bodies in terms of wanting the stability of familiarity as well as the transformation that comes with necessary change.
Beautiful post. Have you read James Fowler’s “Stages of Faith”? I have in recent years thought of a move from Fled to Stay as a regression into a Fowlerian Stage 3 “synthetic-conventional faith,” but this post and your own posture are causing me to consider that this may not always be the case. Thank you for challenging me.
I liked, “We’ll be as mobile as we need to be in the years to come in order to remain close to Jesus.” That’s where we have landed as well. Close to Jesus is the goal, not loyalty to an institution.
In my own limited experience, I have not found that there is as much emnity between Stayers and Fleers when they both want change, but between those who want to keep things the same and don't see a problem, and those that are working for change, whether on the inside or outside. That said, I'm a Fleer who is holding out hope that I can find a safe place to be a Stayer again, but I want to choose carefully. I do find myself frustrated with Stayers who won't leave churches that are clearly resistant to change. That's where my heart breaks and I just want to shake those who Stay.
This is insightful & resonates!
By the title, I thought you may be headed Shakespearean, then read ahead and thought nope. But then by the end thought, it actually tracks. Intro to R+J: “Two households, both alike in dignity, In fair Verona, where we lay our scene, From ancient grudge break to new mutiny, Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.” May we end less tragically.
This is a fantastic comment.
Thank you for posting. I am in your group 3. Unexpectedly fired from my job after 16 months of trying to pioneer a new role in a conservative church as a woman in ministry leadership/teaching. Doesn't feel safe to stay as congregants, but we've been there 20 years. So painful, this is where I I had my wedding and wanted my funeral. Compounding is they fired my husband 12 years ago and we worked through it, reconciled, and stayed. They are good men; they just don't see and it's hard to trust they ever will. Now my choice seems to be being gaslit or misunderstood. Trying to stay and hoping that they will hear me and trusting God is bearing the pain with me.
This is a really timely conversation. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on markers/diagnostic characteristics to discern when to leave or stay in either household. Maybe that’s a separate article though!
Thanks for the comment! I’d say that there are some subjective components to discerning whether continued investment is appropriate or not. For most folks who leave, it’s a labored and slow realization after many bids for change. And in cases that don’t involve corruption or abuse, it may just be the realization that you no longer align with an institution.
I'm wondering if these two houses are really on opposite ends of a spectrum or continuum. That being, we find ourselves moving between them in discernment based on context and somewhat our subjective measures. As well, they are held in tension in our own bodies in terms of wanting the stability of familiarity as well as the transformation that comes with necessary change.
For sure. Good way to put it. That’s kind of what I was getting at by describing our commitments to one or the other as fluid.
Yeah, I think your language of fluidity was what I picked up on. As always, thank you for the thoughts and insights!
Thanks for your comments Brett!
Beautiful post. Have you read James Fowler’s “Stages of Faith”? I have in recent years thought of a move from Fled to Stay as a regression into a Fowlerian Stage 3 “synthetic-conventional faith,” but this post and your own posture are causing me to consider that this may not always be the case. Thank you for challenging me.
A while ago but I’d love to re-read it now! This is a great observation Jennifer.
Gosh, so incredibly good
Really really good.
Oof. This is powerful. Thank you, Ryan.
This is so good and so timely.